175 electrical questions

[Jon Pegler]

If the 175 and 250 that you have recently purchased are the machines that were recently on e-bay UK in the south of England, I think you will find that there will not be very much in the way of original parts on them.
They looked to me to be cobbled together from an assortment of parts. ( I have seen the bikes themselves, not just the e-bay photos )
Your 175 motor number would indicate a 1957 bike, but it certainly didn't have a 1957 frame.
I also seem to remember that there was an odd mixture of wheels fitted, with some with the early 7 rib hubs and some with the later 4 rib hubs.
Just what is inside the motors you will have to find out.
Don't expect the alternators to be original to the motor that they are currently fitted to.
I also think these two machines were fairly priced in today's UK market all the same.
You should be able to build a couple of machines from what you've got, in time.
Best of luck.

Jon

[bodge]

thanks john, ide agree with your view of the bikes entirly they seem to be a random collection of parts left over from other restorations not much more than rolling chassis.
the 175 engine is virtually complete. the vendor said it needed a piston, on stripping it had an old but seemingly unused piston with no rings but it appears to be a size too small for the rusty barrel it was sat in.
im very confused about the alternator though as the oil that came out was very dirty and everything was quite hard to strip as if the engine has been together and was run for some time.
the 250 engine is just an empty shell pretty much and will cost me some fairly serious money to rebuild and the frame is basicly unusable as it has no chassis number/sticker so is so much scrap metal unless theres some method of putting it on a q plate.
all fairly tragic really but i did manage to get them for several hundred less than the advertised prices,ive been looking at these and the prices of spares for a while so i knew what i was getting myself into.
prices of all classics in the u.k are fairly brutal but thats the market now, i could have paid similar sorts of money for an old fsie or lc and i know what ide rather have.
ide be interested in your opinion of the frame,i might have to start another thread about dating/identifying the various parts.

[Jon Pegler]

You should be able to get a dating certificate for the 250 frame which will allow you to register it at the DVLA.
You will also need a NOVA form from the Customs and Excise, together with insurance and a current MOT prior to applying for registration.
It is probably one of the Bill Hannah 1966 batch that was imported into the UK in 1968.
Post some photos, including pictures of the seat mounts and other bracketry and that will give a clearer indication of it's age.
Most of that batch of machines were registered in the UK (and the US )as having the same frame number as the engine number, so whatever number you have on your engine will be the one to use.

Jon

[bodge]

great thanks jon i,ll do that in a new thread

[duck749]

I had to re-wire mine because the harness became so brittle. I found military grade 18awg 600v wiring. It is thinner than factory but is oil resistant and rated for over 300F. I bought two 40' spools for $15 on clearance. http://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=mil-w-22759

image.jpg

[bodge]

looks like good stuff but i think the postage would rule it out for me

[ducwiz]

bodge,

you wrote:

just poped out and picked up a cheap multi meter,theres little or no resistance between each wire and earth or from any wire to any wire.
according to the manual which is a little hard to understand i think that maybe thats o.k .

Referring to the circuit schematics of the stator you quoted from the workshop manual, there should be infinite resistance between ground and either the red, white or the yellow wire. Your measurement indicates a short circuit from the coils windings to ground/mounting plate, i. e. a defective insulation. But, the figure from the manual (100-200 n/c, italian version)



does not symbolize your stator, which is more likely to be this version (from 160-350 n/c manual, english/US version):



Here, only the read wire should have a low resistance to ground/stator plate, while the other coil has no ground reference. Again, there seems to be an insulation problem with the ungrounded coil.
Possibly, the alternator was borrowed from a 160 n/c:



The italian manual quotes, that CEV alternators were installed in the 125S and 175S models, exclusively.
Did your bike run with magneto or battery ignition? For the latter, and supposedly your bike's ignition coil is the original one, you should find a red labelled coil installed, otherwise a green labelled. They differ mainly in primary coil resistance, and inductance.

regards Hans

[bodge]

hi ducwiz, yes i think the consensus is that its probably a 160 monza although mine differs from the schematic in that both coils are grounded and also mounted to the backplate in reverse order, my double coil coil is on the bottom not the top as the schematic shows.heres a rough drawing of what i assume mine is doing.

IMAG0087.jpg

though dont know if this is right or has any point?? basing it on the fact that the red joins a relativly large wire and a similar sized wire is earthed at the other end of the coil and the white joins a pair of smaller wires underneath the same coil,the double coils maybe joined internally which would explain no resistance?

...edit looking again in daylight not sure the wires are actually different diameter at all so anything could be going on !

fraid there was no coil with the bike i bought it as a non runner i can only assume it ran with this stator from the fact on stripping it seemed like it had been in there awhile. im currently stripping the bike and trying to establish what i need for the rebuild.ive ordered a rectifier that dew cat tea bob pointed me towards which is a step in the right direction but its looking increasingly like the stator is no good.

[Rick]

I've never unwound this style of stator coil, but I doubt if it's wound like your drawing- this is how I think the lower coil is wound- like a center tapped transformer.

2 coil stator sm.jpg

Rick

[bodge]

yes that makes a lot more sense,would also explain why ive got not isolation or resistance.i dont think what i had assumed would even function i was basing it on the misconception that the two wires underneath my coil were a pair of smaller diameter wires and therefore a seperate coil.
what model is the type youve illustrated from and how would you utilize?