Installing Electrex World Stator System on Diana

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote=Nick ...
" Turns out a 3-prong headlamp bulb from one of those metric scooters fits just fine, "

____ That ought-to have been expected, but what's it's wattage-rating ? _ (Hopefully not something under 55-watts.)



" now stringing the wiring. "

____ It'd be interesting to know-of your wiring-scheme intentions, so that you may be given advice BEFORE you actually go-ahead & do your intended steps towards completion of your wiring-project.



" Here's a pic of the regulator and two toggle switches: one for ignition, one for lights. "

____ Thanks for the pic !
__ So what about switches for Hi/Lo.beams, brake-light, & horn ?
____ And you haven't yet addressed the raised-concern of switching-over your ign.system-type from ET.type to battery-powered type. _ Do you already realize what-all needs to-be concerned with, for that change of ign.systems ?


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[Nick]

Hey Bob.

Thanks, any advice appreciated.

Re: wiring / toggles. I'm simply running one hot wire from the Batt to a ON / OFF toggle, that hot wire will go to the 12V coil. That's my ignition.

The other toggle is a 3-pole toggle, I'll use that for Hi / Low beam, with taillight / headlight wires running off each pole. That's the lights.

All grounds will go to a single point on the frame, under the tank.

There's no E.T. on this, as I'm using the new 12V stator from Electrex.

The hot wire to the toggles will be fused.

Can you see any obvious problems with this set-up? I've been using toggles on the Sebring for a couple of years with no problems.

Will see how the current bulb works, if it's too weak I'll up the wattage.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Nick ...
" The other toggle is a 3-pole toggle, I'll use that for Hi / Low beam, with taillight / headlight wires running off each pole.
Can you see any obvious problems with this set-up? "

____ Well if you use only your 3-pole/double-throw toggle-switch to alternately power either the high-beam OR the low-beam, (one at a time, as standard),, then that would of-course be okay. _ BUT if you expect-to ALSO power the taillight off-from THAT/same switch,, then you'll need a couple of diodes for the TWO resulted taillight-wire circuits, so-as to then keep-from lighting-up ALL of your main-lights (regardless of that switch's chosen position !).
So unless your 3-ploe toggle-switch has a center/off-position, that switch will offer absolutely NO-control what-so-ever over the lights (if the taillight-circuit isn't isolated with a pair of diode-valves).
(The non-functional result of your intended/over-simplified light-switch/wiring-plan will be discovered if you go-ahead & try it out, but at-least NOW you'll have a heads-up on exactly-why !)
__ If you still wish to use your 3-pole toggle-switch for that particular-function (which YOU've intended), then (if that double-throw switch doesn't have a 'center/off-position'), I'd suggest that you have that 3-pole switch get it's power-juice sourced-from your ign.switch's output, (rather than directly from the battery),, and let the taillight also get it's power-juice sourced directly from your ign.switch's output, as well,
(all so-as to avoid needing the diodes).



" All grounds will go to a single point on the frame, under the tank. "

____ Not the best-idea to-have-all-your-eggs-in-the-same-basket, (in my-own opinion),, but if you do-so, then consider a spot which has easy-access for your eyes to check-on such a master-ground location.



" There's no E.T. on this, as I'm using the new 12V stator from Electrex. "

____ Of-course that-fact had already been well established before, (so now I wonder why you felt the need to make that point again, here),, but it DID have an ET.type of ign.system, and-so you'll need to address the changes that ought-to be of related concern.
The main-concern being that the dwell-time of the stock ET.type points-cam will lead to OVER-heating of your ign.coil, unless you replace the stock 18-degree AAU with the 28-degree AAU that's employed by Duke-models with battery-powered ign.systems. _ OR else-wise, you rather-instead could retain your stock AAU and employ an automotive-type ballast-resistor, so-as to keep your ign.coil from wasting too-much power, (and-thus stay cooler).
__ And when it comes-to setting the ign.timing,, you should no-longer use the recommended-settings for the Mark-III, but rather those intended for the Mach-I !



" The hot wire to the toggles will be fused. "

____ I recommend a 10-amp fuse between the output of your ign.toggle-switch & the input of your double-throw light-switch,, and-also a 30-amp main-fuse between your battery's neg.pole & it's ground-connection. _ This is not-only a BETTER fusing-method, but it's also the smartest way-to-go for fusing !



" Will see how the current bulb works, if it's too weak I'll up the wattage. "

____ Certainly if you were able-to afford to buy that expensive charging-system, then you could also pocket-out the relatively-small funds for the BEST headlight-bulb currently on the market ! _ After-all, you'd otherwise be wasting -(actually: 'ignoring') all that hefty alt.power which you've already paid for !
__ Regardless of whatever headlight you end-up with,, with all that alt.power you have on-tap, you ought-to wire-up the low-beam (& taillight) to remain constantly turned-on (with the ign.switch), and-have only a light-switch that can merely activate just the high-beam, so-as to supplement the low-beam (rather-than temporarily substitute it, as-is normally-done). _ That-way, not-only could you then always choose to have an EXTRA-bright headlight, but you could also solve your issue of the deficient number of installed switches.
For THIS-arrangement, you'd then use your 3-pole/double-throw toggle-switch to power just the ign.coil alone, while in 'position-1' *,, and use it's 'position-2' for connecting power to the ign.coil AND the lights as well ! _ (* This switch setup requires a power-diode to prevent the unintended-circuit back-to the light-circuit.)
And with your single-On/Off toggle-switch only supplying power to just the high-beam alone.
I can't imagine any better of an arrangement than THAT (with only the use of just the parts which you already happen to have for the intended job) !!
__ Please keep us aware of your actual wiring-plans,, and if for any reason you think you don't care-for or even dislike any of my suggested-recommendations, then please tell us what concerns you (about any of them) ! _ (As I've offered more than one switch/circuit-arrangement option.)
____ And BTW, what-about a brake-light plan ?

____ I hope you got a chance to see the episode of 'Philly Throttle', last night.


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[Nick]

Thanks for the tips! 3-pole toggle has center-off position.

What sort of ballast resister should I use? And where does one find them? I suppose the resister should be wired between the points wire and the coil?

Thanks

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Nick ...
" 3-pole toggle has center-off position. "
____ That makes it more useful... So how are you now thinking you'll choose to make your best use of it ?



" What sort of ballast resister should I use? "

____ Here's a link to other posts (placed here in the past), on the topic...
search.php?keywords=BALLAST+RESISTOR
It's likely within those two pages, you'll find useful related-info of interest to you.



" And where does one find them? "

____ Auto.parts-stores, probably eBay as well.
Hopefully someone-else here, who has bought a modern unit,, will offer advice on a best-choice.



" I suppose the resister should be wired between the points wire and the coil? "

____ That should work just as well but, most get installed between the ign.switch's output & the ign.coil.
Their intended-function is to help allow the ign.spark to be stronger for cold-starting,, and after it becomes warmed-up, it THEN develops resistance to spare the ign.coil from becoming overheated, (as by then, the engine doesn't require as strong of a spark, since it's then also warmed-up).
__ If you have a rather strong ign.coil (of any primary voltage-rating), then you could take-advantage of the benefit of a much larger plug-gap, upwards of as much as 2mm -(60 to 80 thousandths, instead of only .028") ! _ (Or, .035" to .040" gap, along-with a plug-cap like that seen on 'Philly Throttle' last night.)


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[Nick]

Bob, thanks again for all the good info. Expect to have it back on the road soon -- will post pics.

Re. the 3-way toggle wiring: When ignition toggle is ON, hot lead from ignition toggle energizes OFF pole of 3-way toggle. When 3-way toggle is flipped one way it lights low beam and rear light, flipped other way, high beam and rear light.

Regarding the points cam issue, I have a spare 350 N/C engine and may just use the AA assy off that if a suitable ballast resistor can't be found.

Didn't see the TV show, but my Ducs are listed on a local site which supplies vehicles to movies, etc. So if they get immortalized on the silver screen I'll let the board know. (My BSA was on Japanese TV a couple of years ago.)

[Nick]

If I might bother you with one more question, what does this mean? And does my wiring the lights off the ignition switch cause this to be an issue?

(* This switch setup requires a power-diode to prevent the unintended-circuit back-to the light-circuit.)

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Nick ...
" Re. the 3-way toggle wiring: When ignition toggle is ON, hot lead from ignition toggle energizes OFF pole of 3-way toggle. When 3-way toggle is flipped one way it lights low beam and rear light, flipped other way, high beam and rear light. "

____ It would be helpful if you could post a diagram of your intended switch/wiring-scheme, so that we could then better realize exactly what-all is actually what.
__ In MY-words of that which you've indicated above (for YOUR-own wiring-plan),, the output of your ign.switch controls power to the input (center-terminal) of your double-throw switch, of which it's postion-1 is meant to control low-beam & taillight, and it's position-2 controls high-beam & taillight... correct ?
__ So now if I have that scheme understood-right,, then I've already previously-indicated that THAT-scheme will-NOT work (without a pair of diodes), as the (non-isolated) SINGLE-circuit for the taillight will (unintentionally) allow ALL three lights to become powered-up (WHENEVER that toggle is toggled out of it's center/off-position) !
If you don't understand, (without a diagram to study), how this-issue could-possibly actually-occur,, then you may actually have to go-ahead & 'try-out' your scheme yourself, so-as to then come-to realize that it's an ACTUAL-issue (that needs help to overcome the unintended-circuit).



" Regarding the points cam issue, I have a spare 350 N/C engine and may just use the AA assy off that "

____ That would be your BEST option.



" what does this mean? -(* This switch setup requires a power-diode to prevent the unintended-circuit back-to the light-circuit.) "

____ Because the particular switches you happen to have are 'deficient' for controlling ALL-of the functions you have to control, you would need diodes to prevent the consequential unintended circuit-pathways (which allow your lights to get power even when you don't want them to, as well).
__ The option of employing your double-throw switch for the ign.coil (as I had suggested), means that one of it's two control-circuits (to the ign.) has to be isolated with a power-diode, so-as to prevent the otherwise unintended-circuit (that would allow the lighting-circuit to get power regardless of that-switch being in either-one of it's two on-positions !).
It's-not very-easy to conceive all the possible circuit-pathways (for power to travel-through) without looking-at a scheme-diagram,, so if you still don't understand and believe that you will choose-to go-with the switch/wiring-scheme I've suggested, THEN I'd bother with drawing-up a diagram of the related scheme for you.


" And does my wiring the lights off the ignition switch cause this to be an issue? "

____ No, of-course it doesn't-mater WHERE the power is sourced-from !
__ THIS unintended-circuit issue is pretty-much the same as that which your-own switch/wiring-scheme encounters with the use of your double-throw switch employed so-as to control the (SINGLE-circuit) taillight, (with BOTH sides of that-switch's two on-positions), which causes a sort-of short-circuit (that's ACTUALLY a lengthened-circuit).
__ If you don't care-for the notion of using diodes (to block these unintended circuit-pathways),, then consider a third switch, or standard control-switches.


Hopeful Cheers,
-Bob

[Nick]

Once again, thank you for taking such an interest in my clumsy efforts. Being not too bright electricically — and fully convinced that electricity is in reality a form of magic — I choose the simplest possible methods (what the less charitable might call 'primitive') to achieve my aims.

Just powered everything up and it seems to be working according to plan. The 3-position toggle controls only the lights, and the low beam wire and taillight wire go from one pole, while the high beam and taillight (brake light) go from the other. In other words, one taillight wire and one headlight wire go from each of the two active poles of the 3-position light toggle. Of course, this means I have no brake light (yet!) but I'm working on it.

Now I have to figure out how to mount a degree wheel to the crank with the primary cover on, make a piston stop to find TDC, and look up the timing figures for both static and full advance.

However, the bike is now rideable and I will have it on the road in the next couple of days, with photo-proof!

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Nick ...
" I choose the simplest possible methods "

____ Many times I-myself have also gone-there & done-that, whenever I acquired a used Duke with a butchered-up or nonexistent electrical-system,, so that I could then-next get it on the road ASAP, to get the motor all checked-out. _ (And later, do a proper electrical-system on it.)
So it's doubtful that anyone-else has installed more toggle-switches onto DUKEs than I-myself have.



" The 3-position toggle controls only the lights, and the low beam wire and taillight wire go from one pole, while the high beam and taillight (brake light) go from the other. In other words, one taillight wire and one headlight wire go from each of the two active poles of the 3-position light toggle. "

____ Well that's ONE-way to solve the 'unintended-circuit' issue that I had warned about.
I gather you went-ahead & discovered on your-own how connecting the (single) taillight-circuit to both-sides of your On/Off/On-toggle would lead to ALL-three lights becoming powered-up in EITHER of it's two on-positions,, and-so then came-up with the novel-idea of instead circuiting the taillight-bulb's brakelight-circuit (in-place of it's taillight-circuit) for one of that-switch's two on-circuits, thus-then eliminating the "unintended-circuit" (which would've shorted all the lights together).
__ I-myself didn't think to suggest that-way of solving the issue because, I wouldn't have thought that anybody would care to have-to flip a toggle to activate their brake-light.



" this means I have no brake light (yet!) but I'm working on it. "

____ I recommend that you go-back to the drawing-board on your wiring-plan and install a 3rd.switch (in the HL.shell) for the high-beam, so that the brake-light can be used as normal.
__ You may wish to employ a simple momentum-switch for activating the brake-light with, since your stock brakelight-switch isn't made to work with battery-powered systems.



" Now I have to figure out how to mount a degree wheel to the crank with the primary cover on, "

____ Try a 'search', as this topic has been covered (numerous times since 2009), by a number of our members here.
A search through my-own posts, turned-up this instance ... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=383&p=2584&#p2584



" make a piston stop to find TDC, "

____ I've never bothered with that process... rather-instead, I used a flashlight and watch as the piston begins to move downward in either direction, and set at zer0 half-way between.



" and look up the timing figures for both static and full advance. "

____ Full-advance for battery-powered ignition-type is 35 to 37-degrees BTDC, (not 39 to 41, as with the stock ET.system).
Actual static-timing will depend on your chosen AAU.model.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob