Crankshaft Runout Question

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Northracing
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2023 5:26 pm

Crankshaft Runout Question

Postby Northracing » Wed Dec 10, 2025 12:10 am

I have a couple of 250 widecase crankshaft cores and to pick the best one to rebuild, I set each of them in V blocks to measure runout. On both cranks, the runout on the main bearing journals was minimal, under 0.0005". But when I measured runout at the end of each shaft, it was 0.004" to 0.005". Runout is highest at the ends and is less as measurements approach the main bearing journals.

I have a 450 crank and did the same measurements and got the same results.

I have no idea if the end of crank runout is due to them being abused and banged around for decades or if this type of situation is common, although 0.005" is way too much. My main concern is on the timing side, don't want to ruin a bronze bushing and lose oil pressure to the big end.

Any observations appreciated. If I need to straighten out shafts, would be interested in the best approach.

Thanks in advance. :shock:

Jordan
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:29 am

Re: Crankshaft Runout Question

Postby Jordan » Wed Dec 10, 2025 7:37 am

It's good to get things right.
My experience tells me that a scored/worn timing side crankshaft bush is not a serious problem with Ducati singles.
They have a low pressure oil system.

Duccout
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Location: Essex UK

Re: Crankshaft Runout Question

Postby Duccout » Wed Dec 10, 2025 7:58 am

Hi,

I'm sure that Nigel has spoken about this in the past, so hopefully he will see your question and chime in.

Cheers,

Colin

blethermaskite
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Location: Scotland

Re: Crankshaft Runout Question

Postby blethermaskite » Thu Dec 11, 2025 7:45 pm

So when I had my 30 ton press I rebuilt a couple of widecase cranks, a 250 and a 350, as far as runout was concerned I would be happy with 0.001 at the primary case bearing journal (if it was unmolested) if not great I would want to see pretty much the same at the primary gear journal. On the timing end again I would like 0.001 on the bevel gear journal, I don't think there is much point measuring at the timing cover/bronze bush journal because nearly every one I have ever dealt with has been in pretty poor shape......either badly scored or battered. It goes almost without saying that poor crankshaft assembly accuracy will trash the lower bevel gears, won't be good for the primary gears, will ultimately cause premature failure of the main bearings and will of course make something of a mess of the timing cover oil control bush. I always checked an assembled unknown quantity engine by loosening the screws a little on the timing cover and the same on the primary cover (with gasket joints broken free) when the engine is spun over if either or both covers try to move around a bit I would say you could be reasonably sure the crank alignment tolerance is out. While not particularly Ducati I have worked on pressed up cranks whose excess run out was due to the shafts being 'bowed' relative to the crank pin (not bent) which I have brought back by careful 'squeezing' the wheels at the appropriate point to 'square' the assembly, If the wheels are 'squashed' a bit of work with a wedge will sometimes work
I am not suggesting what I have done is the 'best' way or even to the 'best' tolerance's but it has worked for me, I am sure some of the guys on here would work to closer figures (ideally so would I) but most of the time we are working with old, well used. worn, and abused parts ......so you do what you can (well I do :) ) Cheers George

Northracing
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Re: Crankshaft Runout Question

Postby Northracing » Sat Dec 13, 2025 1:06 am

Appreciate the responses.
George, we may have similar backgrounds, I am relatively new to Ducati crankshafts but have been rebuilding Japanese two-stroke cranks for decades.

I have not ever before come across the situation where there is no appreciable runout on the main bearing journals, yet considerable runout on the shafts. My 'better' 250 crank has 0.004" runout on the bronze bearing journal and a bit under 0.002" on the surface the bevel gear sits - as well as I can measure with the woodruff key slot in the way. There is just under 0.002" runout on the outer surface of the primary gear journal.

No way I will run a crank with 0.002" on the bevel surface, thinking the crank was thrown about and damaged before I got hold of it, yet not sure...did some of these engines come with sloppy cranks or were the cranks that came into my possession damaged? I'm still on a learning curve.
Derek :shock:

Duccout
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Location: Essex UK

Re: Crankshaft Runout Question

Postby Duccout » Sat Dec 13, 2025 12:02 pm

Hi Derek,

There are two people who regularly contribute to this forum who WILL know the answer to your question: Nigel and Eldert, who between them must have rebuilt hundreds of Ducati cranks. One of them will see your question and answer it.

Cheers,

Colin

LaceyDucati
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Location: Wales UK
Contact:

Re: Crankshaft Runout Question

Postby LaceyDucati » Sat Dec 13, 2025 8:01 pm

Hello Derek

When checked running on the main bearing journals in an ideal world you should see no more than 1 thou (0.025mm) runout when clocking the ends. By the ends I would mean the primary cover bearing diameter and the bevel gear diameter. Clocking the bevel gear diameter is best checked by sliding a 6202 bearing on it and clocking the middle, this avoids the keyway. Always check that the keyway is not burred up at the edges, carefully stone off any raised areas if necessary. Clocking the oil bush nose (as mentioned) is largely a waste of time as it will almost certainly be worn (and not concentrically). You can sometimes check this surface but only right next to the thread where it hasn't been in the bush. I would recommend slipping a pair of new main bearings on the crank, to sit on the vee blocks for a smoother check. Be aware the main bearing journals may well be worn (in particular on the drive side). Positioning the main bearing on the small unworn area will identify wear and again this is generally not concentric as wear occurs on one side. Bad wear will have to be rectified by building up and regrinding. That's another whole rabbit hole to enter due to the cranks never running true to the inner centres.

You can slip a 6203 bearing on the primary cover bearing diameter (along with the 6202 on the bevel gear diameter) and run the crank on vee blocks on those bearings. That is about as close to running the crank between centres as you will get. When clocking the main bearing journals like this I look for less than 8 tenths (0.02mm) runout. Any wear on the main bearing journals will become apparent when comparing the worn and unworn areas of the journal. Actually running between centres in my opinion is not ideal as invariably the centres are damaged from abuse and even a very light end load will push the crank out of true.

Ideally I like to see the crank within a few tenths or better still perfect, but the later seldom happens. In the real world I will accept maybe one and a half thou (0.038mm) at one end. I'm generally unhappy with any runout of 2 thou (0.05mm) and above, but sometimes cranks are just wrong and there is not much economically you can do about it.

All this said, cranks often move in use. You will often find wheels spread in use, meaning the high spots are at the top when the pin is at the top. keeping crank end float to zero, will limit this.

Unfortunately some cranks are difficult/impossible to true, there are a few reasons for this:

Damage to pin bores from previous poor workmanship.

Issues due to manufacture, these cranks were ground as assemblies and some cranks when split refuse to true. This is invariably due to the cranks being built with the pin hard up against the step of the pin on the drive side. Which coupled with side thrust faces which are wedged from poor grinding, means the pin was not true to the bore when ground. This shows up when you don't shoulder pins and used parallel pins, which is the best way to build a crank especially for race use to avoid broken pins. For a road bike, shouldering a stepped pin is the only way you will get some cranks to run true.

Correcting any manufacture issues, damage and wear with these cranks is very time consuming and seldom cost effective compared with a good used crank if available.

Hopefully this will help with some basic info. Work on these cranks is not often easy and often from my experience is poorly performed even by so called "specialists". I've built 100's of Ducati Bevel single and twin cranks over the years and occasionally it feels like trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear :-)

Good Luck

Best Wishes Nigel


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